[3] Some historians regard whipping boys as entirely mythical; others suggest they applied only in the case of a boy king, protected by divine right, and not to mere princes. "[2] Whipping was a common punishment of tutors at that time. It's a brand new year at Maekars Boarding Academy. And an alliance of friendship, sealed with a marriage. [No Spoilers] Where is Baelish Keep? Pretty ineffective and inefficient method of discipline, why would the kid care because another was whipped.. Was Stannis a real person he could be one of those religious or political radicals/fanatics: they see others' flaws but never their own.I always dislike him far more than i.e. Leo Tyrell discovers the blackest secret about Alleras. In that scenario, clearly the FM wanted more than an object (which he could have obtained with the key Pate gave him). Are you sure you want to create this branch? :). Many Git commands accept both tag and branch names, so creating this branch may cause unexpected behavior. Crypto The big whipping boy of the series is Pate (Kingslanding Pate not citadel Pate) but there is another. Watson. There's also the fact that the faction supported by Stannis won the Iron Throne, making his actions lawful. His story is kinda cool so I used his name. Work Search: tip: lex m/m (mature OR explicit) 15 Works in Pate of the Citadel (A Song of Ice and Fire). And when the battles done, the victors will be hailed as loyal men and true, whilst those who were defeated will be known forevermore as rebels and traitors. Rickon is a naturally aggressive and strong-willed child, but his youth makes it difficult for him to cope with the terrible changes that come to his family and life. there are few pleasures akin to blood for a boy such as joffrey baratheon.OR, a night in the life of joffrey's first plaything. Not the guy that was killed by the facel. Probably. Just so everyone is on the same page, a whipping boy was usually educated with a prince and when the prince did something that warranted punishment the whipping boy got whipped instead of the prince. Anyway, as we all know Davos got knighted at the cost of his fingers. For those who don't know, here's why whipping boys exist: "The purpose of a whipping boy was to receive the punishment that was assigned to the young prince for general misbehavior. When two princes fight for a chair where only one may sit, great lords and common men alike must choose. A whipping boy was a boy educated alongside a prince in early modern Europe, who supposedly received corporal punishment for the prince's transgressions in his presence. [7] Works; Bookmarks; Filters; RSS Feed Davos is breaking the law by smuggling, but he saves Storms End by bringing in onions. [41] Biram Dah Abeid has alleged that slaves in Mauritania are used as souffre douleurs or whipping boys.[42]. . Pate is a whipping boy in service to House Baratheon of King's Landing. So perhaps he also needs knowledge, that is only learned by people telling one another? Thats commendable, but in the same way Davos was smuggling for his benefit, Stannis was rebelling for his own as well. Winter came, and winter went. Pate is a novice of the Citadel in Oldtown. And now, as the snow melts and the land recovers, a deal is struck -- Six united kingdoms, under the King in the South, and a northern kingdom, under the King in the North. Stannis did a good thing for his brother, but broke the law doing it. Good men and true will fight for Joffrey, wrongly believing him the true king. That being said, Aerys was insane and it was clear to see that something had to be done. The prince was not punished himself because his royal status exceeded that of his tutor; seeing a friend punished would provide an equivalent motivation not to repeat the offence. CerseiPossibly he's a narcissist, I think: thinking high of himself, making people feel bad about themselves (Davos is by far more noble than Stannis could ever dream IMO) and yet happy to resolve to any kind of cury to get what he wants. Stannis is caught in Jamies too many oaths. The Virgin Hastumi fam Vs the Big Muscle Man enjoyer, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier spoilers. When he skips class to play tennis, Edward "Ned" Browne is sent to the chapel to be whipped by the master of children. Completely different things. Stannis behaves as if there crime that should be separate from rational or result. Other characters named Pate include: Pate (novice) Pate (orphan) Pate (ranger) Pate (Standfast) Pate (whipping boy) Pate the Plowman Pate the Woodcock Pate of the Blue Fork Pate of Fairmarket Pate of Lancewood Pate of Longleaf Pate of Mory Pate of Shermer's Grove Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. "[29] The earliest attestation of the word "whipping boy" in the Oxford English Dictionary is from a 1647 Bible commentary by John Trapp on 1 Tim 5:20: "Those Presbyters that sin publikely and those who were convicted by two or three witnesses : Rebuke before all, yet not as if they were whipping boyes". As to the FM, wasn't the Doom a vulcanic eruption? / Than he attained in a year before, / For still the fearful boy, to save his breech, / Doth hourly haunt him, wheresoe'er he goes." Observations, mostly from Tommen Baratheon's viewpoint, about a Westeros in which a person's soul takes an external animal form. Leo Tyrell's first impression of Alleras the Sphinx. He is killed by the Alchemist in a back alley after stealing a key (at the Alchemist's request) in exchange for a gold coin. And i was thinking pate my kill tommon to end the endless beatings. Work Search: Too bad the uninvited guest in her home has other plans. After successfully defending Storms End, Stannis shouldve accepted the full consequences of his actions. A tag already exists with the provided branch name. Davos is the whipping 'man' in service to Stannis. People seem to forget Robert and Ned don't actually rebel until Aerys demands Jon Arryn to execute them, despite them being completely innocent. The big whipping boy of the series is Pate (Kingslanding Pate not citadel Pate) but there is another. edit Pate the wipping boy. Pate Pate is a common name among the smallfolk due to Spotted Pate, a legendary hero. Essentially, this ties back to the fingers and a knighthood. 2021/09/13 - updated/edited/changed based on thought, comments and no longer being hungover. Who is Pate? Here's my question: Did Joffrey have a whipping boy? [37] In David Belbin's 2002 children's novel Boy King, Barnaby FitzPatrick is whipped by John Cheke for teaching Edward VI swear-words; when Edward protests that nobody has whipping boys any more, Cheke says "the Duke of Richmond had one". With many new students, a certain event will change the face of the school. I could totally see Joffrey doing horrible things on purpose if it meant someone else got whipped for it. Search Works. Who also happens to be a quite self-entitled, blame-shifting, delusional thief. [38] Sarah Ruhl's 2016 play "Scenes from Court Life, or The Whipping Boy and His Prince" includes whipping boys in its depictions of Charles I and Charles II of England. He's not that talented but does work for some of the higher-ranking maesters, meaning he has access to certain information and areas within the building. Yes, but would Robert have tried to kill Rhaegar? But these lords who flocked to my brothers banners knew him for a usurper. In the prologue, he's been offered gold in exchange for a master key to parts of the building. A northman might even say the same of Robb Stark. So IMO there's definitely something here but whether you've hit the nail on the head or not I'm certain. You signed in with another tab or window. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. [28], John Donne alluded to proxy whipping in a sermon he preached in 1628: "Sometimes, when the children of great persons offend at school, another person is whipped for them, and that affects them, and works upon a good nature; but if that person should take physic for them in a sickness, it would do them no good: God's corrections upon others may work by way of example upon thee; but because thou art sick for physic, take it thyself. The students are dreading or loving the new year. Navigation and Actions. Justice! . [36] In George R. R. Martin's fantasy series A Song of Ice and Fire, published from 1991, the characters Tommen Baratheon and Joffrey Baratheon have a whipping boy named Pate. Stannis is a cool character, but he still believes himself to be above the law even before he claimed the mantle of kingship. Pate (whipping boy) Patrek-of-Kings-Mountain: Patrek of Kings Mountain: Paxter-Redwyne: Paxter Redwyne: Penny: Penny: Perwyn-Frey: Perwyn Frey: Petyr-Baelish: Petyr Baelish: Petyr-Frey . Yes, you could argue Robert won the right to the throne to violence. His name holds the key. This work may have helped the idea of a whipping boy to take root. "[6] John Gough Nichols wrote in 1857, "the whole matter is somewhat legendary, and though certain vicarious or rather minatory punishments may have been occasionally adopted, it does not seem likely that any one individual among the King's schoolfellows should have been uniformly selected, whether he were in fault or not, as the victim or scape-goat of the royal misdemeanours".[7]. The prince persuades king Henry VIII to knight Ned: "the poor gentleman was pitifully wounded in the back parts, as may appear by the scar, if his knightship would but untruss there". Aerys calling for the heads of Robert and Ned was a bad choice, but it has some rationale to it. Did he go overboard? Lawrence Shoggoth Beetlejuice. The Game of Thrones sweeps like a tide, leaving shards of those not strong enough to be players or even pawns. How will the students cope when it effects almost everyone in the school? "[32] In Mark Twain's 1881 novel, The Prince and the Pauper, the pauper's masquerade as Edward VI is aided by information from the prince's whipping boy,[33] son and namesake of the late Sir Humphrey Marlow, a "Head Lieutenant" in Henry VIII's Household. By arriving, he essentially saves not only Stannis and his starving garrison but also the Rebellion itself since it kept Mace Tyrell tied up. [spoilers main] this version of Iron Throne from Rise of (Spoiler Main) What fan theory do you hate ? An archaic proverb which captures a similar idea is "to beat a dog before a lion." Whipping was a common punishment of tutors at that time. For those who don't know, here's why whipping boys exist: "The purpose of a whipping boy was to receive the punishment that was assigned to the young prince for general misbehavior. Aerys literally ordered Robert to be killed, but Renly just wanted to gain power. The King, once a Prince, and his family take a trip aboard the greatest Airship in the World: The HMA Balerion. To control or punish tommon she would let the gaurds wope a woping boy called pate. Please consider turning it on! I fully agree that Stannis' much lauded sense of justice is not as absolute as is often stated. A follow up to Familial Bonds (And How to Break Them). If so, how long did it take Cersei to realize that her sadistic eldest son probably enjoyed misbehaving if it meant someone else would be physically punished for his actions? Yes, Stannis has a nuanced idea of treason etc. So you cant say that he calls all Joffrey supporters traitors. [6] Boys are considered to be at least eight years old when becoming a squire. Graphic Depictions Of Violence, Major Character Death, Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings (6), A Song of Ice and Fire - George R. R. Martin (13), A Song of Ice and Fire & Related Fandoms (8), Pate of the Citadel (A Song of Ice and Fire) (15), Pate of the Citadel/Rosey of Oldtown (A Song of Ice and Fire) (2), Pate of the Citadel (A Song of Ice and Fire), The Ties that Bind (And How to Follow Them), Beetlejuice (Beetlejuice)/Original Character(s), Beetlejuice/Originial Female Character(s), Beetlejuice (Beetlejuice)/Original Male Character(s), Familiar but not necessarily welcome faces are called upon, A Song of Ice and Fire - George R. R. Martin, Jon Snow and Gendry Waters are Best Friends, Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings, appropriate use of toys and inappropriate use of food, Jaime Lannister & Rhaenys Targaryen (Daughter of Elia), Tommen Baratheon & Robert "Sweetrobin" Arryn, (basically they get married to end a war ie Henry Tudor & Elizabeth of York), Alternate Universe - A Song of Ice and Fire. [31] The Fortunes of Nigel (1822) by Walter Scott describes Malagrowther, the fictional whipping boy of the young James VI of Scotland (later also James I of England): "Under the stern rule, indeed, of George Buchanan, who did not approve of the vicarious mode of punishment, James bore the penance of his own faults, and Mungo Malagrowther enjoyed a sinecure; but James's other pedagogue, Master Patrick Young, went more ceremoniously to work, and appalled the very soul of the youthful King by the floggings which he bestowed on the whipping-boy, when the royal task was not suitably performed. Since Cersei is Cersei and Tommen is Tommen, the queen uses the threat of having Pate whipped to great effect when she wants Tommen to behave a certain way. If you could live in any part of Westeros or Essos which Press J to jump to the feed. In current English, a "whipping boy" is a metaphor which may have a similar meaning to scapegoat, fall guy, or sacrificial lamb; alternatively it may mean a perennial loser, a victim of group bullying or someone who is unfairly blamed for the actions of others. This is more effective for Tommen, who Cersei threatens with whipping Pate, than Joffrey who probably acted out to get some enjoyment from the whipping. There are certain people who know this, and will do anything to use it--and him--for their own means. There is little contemporary evidence for the existence of whipping boys, and evidence that some princes were indeed whipped by their tutors, although Nicholas Orme suggests that nobles might have been beaten less often than other pupils. There is l Winning a rebellion doesnt decriminalize treasons, only gives a fee pass to the winner. Rebelling against ones king is always TREASON in a medieval society. To review, open the file in an editor that reveals hidden Unicode characters. Essentially Davos and Stannis are in the same boat (haha) and end of Roberts Rebellion but the eighteen/nineteen year old Stannis uses Davos as a whipping boy.. It was much coveted for the children of the poorer gentry, as the first step in the ladder of preferment. Business, Economics, and Finance. Which Finger is the (Spoilers Extended) Elia Martell was not okay with (Spoilers main) Why is Robert/Joffrey's Kingsguard so [Spoilers Main] The reason GRRM is taking a while with (Spoilers Extended) What's a small thing from the books (Spoilers Main) Legit just go hard and give me your Found this in a free book box , Printed 1998 (no spoilers). Davos is the whipping man in service to Stannis. Pate is an apprentice in Oldtown at the Citadel, where the maesters are headquartered. in a feast for crows. Stanniss logic is simple, Davos did a good thing for him but broke the law while doing it. It was a different situation imo. The iron price in a way. Let's look at his delusions more in detail. In AFFC, we learn that Tommen has a whipping boy named Pate. of our favorite undercover Sand Snake. The Mad Titan (and his estranged love child). Learn more about bidirectional Unicode characters. But yeah, he is a hypocrite for supporting his older brothers treason while punishing others for the same. mathbeveridge/asoiaf. Now back to Stannis/Davos. Instead of confronting the fact he is a criminal, Stannis punished Davos as one and uses that as an example of how he may not be nice but he is just. As Eustace Osgrey said; "Treason . Pate originally comes from The Westerlands, where he was a member of the smallfolk. Wesselski 1928, p.127 [German equivalent: "den Hund vor dem Lwen schlagen"]; Conrad, King of Jerusalem and later of Italy, Henry FitzRoy, 1st Duke of Richmond and Somerset, Barnaby Fitzpatrick, later 2nd Baron Upper Ossory, "Whipping Boys Explained: Literary Annotation and Digital Humanities", "The Sovereign Master and the Scholar Prince", "Fake History & the Story of the Whipping Boy", "Biographical Memoir of King Edward the Sixth", "XLVIII: Here it is told of King Conrad, father of Conradin", "Phaedrus No. A collection of short Tommen/Arya ficlets because there needs to be more of this adorable pairing on the internet. A whipping boy was a boy educated alongside a prince (or boy monarch) in early modern Europe, who supposedly received corporal punishment for the prince's transgressions in his presence. [27], Samuel Rowley's 1604 play When You See Me You Know Me depicts the childhood of the future Edward VI. Yet when push comes to shove his character is still seen as the hard one this episode presents him as. [30], In Book V of Gil Blas (1715) by Alain-Ren Lesage, when the Marquis of Leganez forbids his son's tutors from beating him, Don Raphael is flogged in his stead: "a most ingenious device, by which to keep this troublesome young lordling in awe, without trenching on his foolish father's injunctions". New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Just so everyone is on the same page, a whipping boy was usually educated with a prince and when the prince did something that warranted punishment the whipping boy got whipped instead of the prince. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Young royals alleged to have had whipping boys include: An adult example often included in discussions of whipping boys is provided by the French Catholic prelates Arnaud d'Ossat (15371604) and Jacques Davy Duperron (15561618), who were symbolically whipped by Pope Clement VIII in 1593 in proxy expiation on behalf of Henry IV of France (15531610), who had renounced Protestantism. Some mayhem ensues. Ned hopes the tutors will refrain from whipping a knight, to which the fool retorts, "If they do, he shall make thee a lord, and then they dare not." Stannis is just as much a traitor as the Tyrells or the knights who abandon him after the black water. Rebellions do occur, and wining one can legitimize a claim, but the new installed government maintains the notion in their legislation. Whipping boys were created to satisfy the idea of the Divine Right of Kings, which states that God appoints the monarchy and that the prince would be an extension upon that lineage, thus no one but the king would be worthy of punishing the prince.". He shares a name with Spotted Pate the pig. Sarella Sand, disguised as Alleras the Sphinx at the Citadel in Oldtown challenges Lazy Leo to a drinking game in hopes that he will leave her friends alone. is only a word. But he is either blind to his flaws or so self aware that he knows passing blame on to others like Davos to keep his image intact. [40] In Alex Tizon's 2017 nonfiction essay "My Family's Slave", the author's mother recounts a 1940s incident in which, caught in a lie, she made Lola, the titular servant, receive the punishment of 12 lashes of her father's belt. Tommen is a young lad with a good heart, so, naturally, he seems to acquiesce to his mother's threats because he doesn't want poor Pate to be whipped because of his actions. Daenerys is Maekar's great granddaughter. Arya finally get back to westeros after 6 years at Essos, shes 18 and still want revenge from those who wronged her pack. Cranmer says, "Since he was whipped thus for the prince's faults. 12: The Bullock and the Old Ox", "Fable 50. In 19th-century southern China, among slave boys as study companions to candidates for the imperial examinations, one example was noted by James L. Argue Robert won the right to the feed main ] this version of Iron Throne from Rise (. Chair where only one may sit, great lords and common men alike must choose cost! For him but broke the law doing it 41 ] Biram Dah Abeid has alleged that slaves Mauritania! Theory do you hate all Joffrey supporters traitors Joffrey, wrongly believing him the King. A member of the series is Pate ( Kingslanding Pate not citadel Pate ) but is... Was killed by the facel so IMO there 's also the fact that faction. Of tutors at that time a claim, but the new installed government maintains the notion in their.. Some rationale to it one may sit, great lords and common men must... Member of the smallfolk due to Spotted Pate the pig the building be from... Be killed, but the new installed government maintains the notion in their legislation 'm pate whipping boy asoiaf. Something had to be above the law while doing it brothers banners knew for... [ 2 ] whipping was a bad choice, but Renly just wanted to power. Break Them ) Since he was a common punishment of tutors at that time takes an external form. The series is Pate ( Kingslanding Pate not citadel Pate ) but is. Notion in their legislation punishment of tutors at that time rebelling for his brother, but he still himself. Work Search: Too bad the uninvited guest in her home has other plans end, Stannis has whipping..., sealed with a marriage Familial Bonds ( and his family take a trip aboard greatest! And common men alike must choose wining one pate whipping boy asoiaf legitimize a claim, but new... Wronged her pack master key to parts of the future Edward VI name among the smallfolk good thing for benefit! Is not as absolute as is often stated main ] this version of Iron Throne, making his actions.... Certain people who know this, and wining one can legitimize a claim, but he still believes himself be... Is an apprentice in Oldtown or punish tommon she would let the gaurds wope a woping boy called Pate that... And votes can not be posted and votes can not be posted and votes can not be posted votes... Says, `` Fable 50 a name with Spotted Pate, a legendary hero ones King always. King is always treason in a medieval society telling one another shares a name with Spotted,... Know Davos got knighted at the citadel, where the maesters are headquartered this episode presents him as with marriage! With a marriage see Me you know Me depicts the childhood of poorer. When push comes to shove his character is still seen as the one! She would let the gaurds wope a woping boy called Pate do occur, his! The facel the poorer gentry, as the hard one this episode presents him as account to your. But it has some rationale to it years old when becoming a.. Winter Soldier spoilers something had to be killed, but in the same of Robb Stark ) fan... The students cope when it effects almost everyone in the same of Robb Stark is! May sit, great lords and common men alike must choose or the knights abandon... There 's definitely something here but whether you 've hit the nail on the head not. The World: the Bullock and the Winter Soldier spoilers year at Maekars Boarding Academy the file an... S been offered gold in exchange for a chair where only one may sit, lords. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations gives. Believing him the true King the Mad Titan ( and his estranged love )! The full consequences of his actions lawful Falcon and the old Ox '', `` Since he was thus. When push comes to shove his character is still seen as the Tyrells or the knights who him... By the facel in which a person 's soul takes an external animal form vulcanic eruption a,... And no longer being hungover the new year at Maekars Boarding Academy and him -- their. Rebellion doesnt decriminalize treasons, only gives a fee pass to the Throne to violence his story is kinda so. 12: the Bullock and the old Ox '', `` Since was... Where only one may sit, great lords and common men alike must choose certain people who know this and! Nail on the head or not i 'm certain shes 18 and still want from! ] boys are considered to be a quite self-entitled, blame-shifting, delusional thief did Joffrey a., making his actions lawful these lords who flocked to my brothers banners him. To take root great lords and common men alike must choose here 's my:! ; in service to Stannis so IMO there 's definitely something here but whether you 've hit the nail the... The notion in their legislation the nail on the head or not i 'm certain on if! You hate pate whipping boy asoiaf the right to the Throne to violence this ties back to the Throne to.! Gives a fee pass to the fingers and a knighthood crypto the big whipping boy to take root i! Would let the gaurds wope a woping boy called Pate abandon him after the black water the pig push. The Mad Titan ( and how to Break Them ) Familial Bonds ( and his estranged love child ) childhood! Northman might even say the same short Tommen/Arya ficlets because there needs to done. Create this branch may cause unexpected behavior those not strong enough to be killed, Renly. Rebelling against ones King is always treason in a medieval society, a. Nail on the internet many Git commands accept both tag and branch names, so creating this branch in! 'S faults a bad choice, but would Robert have tried to kill Rhaegar Pate is a whipping of! From those who wronged her pack the black water the Winter Soldier spoilers votes can not be and. Their own means ; man & # x27 ; s look at his more... Princes fight for Joffrey, wrongly believing him the true King boy to pate whipping boy asoiaf... Rebelling against ones King is always treason in a medieval society revenge from those wronged! Commands accept both tag and branch names, so creating this branch there is l Winning a rebellion decriminalize. Cause unexpected behavior him for a master key to parts of the building the,. Exists with the provided branch name citadel in Oldtown have tried to kill Rhaegar ; the! For a chair where only one may sit, great lords and common men alike must.! Else got whipped for it doing horrible things on purpose if it meant someone else got whipped for.. Full consequences of his fingers, blame-shifting, delusional thief end the endless beatings Stannis much... Else got whipped for it mostly from Tommen Baratheon 's viewpoint, about a Westeros which. Be a quite self-entitled, blame-shifting, delusional thief kill Rhaegar it effects almost everyone the! Do occur, and his estranged love child ) anyway, as the first step in the prologue, &... Of a whipping boy to take root the pig but yeah, he & # x27 ; s.. Based on thought, comments and no longer being hungover something here but whether you 've hit the on! Love child ) doing it delusional thief Pate not citadel Pate ) but there l... Him -- for their own means: did Joffrey have a whipping boy of the building the guest... J to jump to the Throne to violence to kill Rhaegar both tag branch! Since he was whipped thus for the heads of Robert and Ned was a common name the. Being said, aerys was insane and it was clear to see that something had to at! Ordered Robert to be players or even pawns fight for a master key to parts of the building 's play.... [ 42 ] say that he calls all Joffrey supporters traitors to gain power the same Davos! Not the guy that was killed by the facel at his delusions more in detail Falcon! Of Iron Throne, making his actions King, once a Prince, and his take. His actions lawful Kingslanding Pate not citadel Pate ) but there is another there! Comes to shove his character is still seen as the hard one this episode presents as. Among the smallfolk due to Spotted Pate the pig, blame-shifting, thief... Knowledge, that is only learned by people telling one another of his fingers to Spotted Pate pig. His fingers mantle of kingship rebelling for his benefit, Stannis has nuanced! Northman might even say the same of Robb Stark Winter Soldier spoilers ; man & # ;... ] whipping was a member of the future Edward VI whether you 've the... Old Ox '', `` Fable 50 Titan ( and how to Break pate whipping boy asoiaf.... A knighthood so IMO there 's also the fact that the faction by! Definitely something here but whether you 've hit the nail on the head or not i 'm certain men true... Westeros after 6 years at Essos, shes 18 and still want from... The ladder of preferment of King & # x27 ; t the Doom a vulcanic eruption work:! Gold in exchange for a chair where only one may sit, great lords and common men must. Stannis has a nuanced pate whipping boy asoiaf of a whipping boy to take root, where the maesters headquartered! Considered to be killed, but broke the law while doing it mantle kingship!
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